A postcard from...Sunderland
Thoughts.
1. Luke Moore. Looked interested, alert, reads the game well and made some decent runs. He faded but perhaps worth another go? I'd say so. Credit to Beattie and Bednar too. Not many emerged with credit. They did - if only for effort.
2. What on earth were the defence doing today?
3. Tony Mowbray's comments were diplomatic. I've seen managers blow their top for less and well done to Mowbray for keeping his thoughts 'in house'. But Tony, come on now, do you really believe your following statement: "If we win the next game, the game after that and the one after that we'll be mid-table"? Apart from mathematically being unlikely, can you see this Albion side defeating Man City, Chelsea and Spurs?
4. Forget Sunderland's League position just for a moment. It's fairly clear that the Keane effect was one of football's biggest myths. Any side with Kenwyne Jones and Cisse in their forward line should be higher than 18th.
5. I've said it before, Mowbray's said it before, there will be no money for new players. Loans it is. The hard part now is finding them. How do Albion cope with Premier League football when Sunderland, the 18th best team at the start of play, spend £60million and don't compete? The answer can be found on Humberside. Whatever Hull have done is working. Albion, meanwhile, have no money to spend on players...
6. Fair play to the Albion fans who sat that out until the end. Or, for that matter, until half time. Just over a week before Christmas, during a Credit Crunch, and seeing your team lose 4-0. If the club had anything about them then they'd offer you a refund. Don't go holding anything, let alone your breath.
7. Jeremy Peace and directors were planning to charter a plane, at no small cost, for today's game. Wouldn't have fancied that in this weather would you? Still, at least they got back early - probably around the same time as those who left after the third goal.
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Chris Lepkowski - Mail man Chris Lepkowski’s view of what’s going on at West Bromwich Albion FC.
I'm losing count of the amount of games where we
keep a team at bay for so long & then concede 2 or 3 within minutes. I can think of Everton,Hull,
Villa, West Ham & Chelsea at home. Liverpool &
United as well as yesterdays collapse at Sunderl-
and. It's getting ridiculous!
You alrite Chris? You've summed it up. I was at the Stadium of Light. I was in shock more then anything..defenisively we were abject at best. We look devoid of any confidence. I dont know where our next win is coming from. Our midfield interchanges with eachother..trying to do it like the best teams i.e Manchester United, Arsenal and Barca. However (i love and admire Tony Mowbray as a person and manager) it comes across as if the midfield do not know their defensive duities. In the second half Zuiverloon was marauding in any position..there was a lack of discipline and shape. And what of Borja Valero? A good player, great passer but bottom line is we havent got the players to compliment him. Whats his best position? A deep-laying playmaker? He needs a screening midfielder. Someone to allow him more freedom. And what of Marek Cech? £1.4 million and cant get a look in at left-back and we have shipped 32 goals..while in that time Robinson has not been at his best although he had no protection what so ever on Saturday. If you really want to nit pick thats £4.7m+£1.4m and the £3m spent on Moore( who did look interested) meaning £9.1m could have been spent on one striker? Am i being harsh. Bottom line is im worried. I could imagine Mowbray watching the Barca v Madrid game last night and having a grand vision of Albion playing that type of football. To put things into context we are a million miles away from that. You cant do that on a budget. Its impossible. I have come to the conclusion Mowbray is too good for the Albion. Im hurting...but i have grown accustomed to it Chris! Supporting Albion is great for character building...that has to be the only solace.
P.S. The loans have to be experienced heads! We have too many young, talented players..we need some Prem know how. How you get them on no budget..i'll never know. Mowbray needs to prove some doubters wrong, he needs to wheel and deal, like Harry Redknapp and hopefully find a gem. I live in hope as always.
Mowbray signed these players... these are Mowbrays tactics. We're no better at defending now than we were against QPR, his first home game. Its too late to save this season i fear, but go now and we might be able to save next season. How long must we wait, how bad must it get (a home defeat to Peterboro?) before people realise the Emperor isnt wearing any clothes? He's had money to spend and bought garbage - Valero, the most ineffective footballer in the league, no matter how soft his feet are and Zuiverloon, a full back who cant defend. Go now and take your naive "principles and beliefs with you". We're a laughing stock and no one seems too concerned. Mowbray out - before we write off this season like we've written off this one.
Dave Jones- Mowbray out? Seems "fans" have short minds. This is the man that won us the Championship, got us to the Semi-Finals...Theres not much more i can say...except Mowbray is the RIGHT man for Albion!
The right man eh? A championship which was almost thrown away at the finish - dont you remember Soton at home? And a cup semi final place after a run to the final playing absolutely no team of note, going out to the first decent opponent? Why dont you also mention a playoff final losing to a poor Derby side and Mowbray's inability to get the best out of a team packed with talent and egos?
I dont know why people are so suprised that a team which struggled to keep a clean sheet in Div 1 and loses its most experienced and impactful players - Phillips, Gera - should look so lost at this level
But rather than look backwards, lets took at the current situation... millions wasted on sub-standard players in positions we dont need, a team which looks baffled by the formation and no attempt to address the core problems which have been there for a season or more.
Megson was sacked after 3 wins out of 8 and 2 promotions. Why is no one looking at Mowbray after 3 out of 16 or 17? No clean sheets since early October... not a sniff of a goal and yet he thinks we can win 2 games on the bounce to be mid table. The guy's deluded. Lets not knock Peace too much, he's backed Mogga with cash, its just its been wasted and sadly wont be recouped in the current economic climate. It feels exactly like the Buckley winter of 1996 all over again.
Sadly too many people down the Albion put up with these sub standard players like Valero, Moore, Zuiverloon in the same way we put up with garbage like Hamilton, Raven and Burgess back in the day. I wouldnt trust this guy to buy a sausage roll in Greggs so dont get your hopes up for January. More of the same ineffective, inexperienced and lightweight players making no impact, in a formation they can't understand, no doubt. If he's looking for a defensive midfielder as he says (despite saying previously, arrogantly that "we dont play with one" - unlike Man U, Chelsea, and Liverpool)then dont you think maybe its worth us playing the system first and using someone at the club in that role, like Pele, to bed it in? Mowbray is lost in his own confusion and delusion. We've made zerpo prpogress since May. Get him out before he destroys any hope we have of bouncing back next season. And lets not confuse an ineffective, tactically naive and defensively lackadaisical approach as "good football" - we're not mugs and we're not buying this garbage.
Dave Jones is absolutley spot on! Its sad but true.
Can the rest of the world starting with TM himself please wake up!
Frankly I’m disappointed at just how fickle West Brom fans have become. Tony Mowbray is without doubt the best manager we have been lucky enough to have for 20 years. We’ve played some lovely football since he took charge and have competed in all of our games this season. As Tony correctly states we are merely a few wins away from mid table. I’m 100% confident that we’ll secure the services of at least two quality strikers in January and will finish comfortably above the relegation positions.
Have some faith; the guy that won us our first silverware for far too long hasn’t become a bad manager over night.
That's exactly the sort of comment that tells me we're doomed at the Albion. Doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past that left us with under achieving players that thought they were better than they were - but yet yet no one else wanted to sign.
Doomed to delude ourselves that we would be competitive if "only if we got the rub of the green", or that players who are simply not up to scratch in terms of either talent or heart "just need a chance", or that "we're as good as anyone on our day" (but we dont have too many of those "days"). Theyre just empty platitudes, excuses for failure and underachievement.
Once we've started down that route its a very steep slope back to the dark ages of where we were 5+ years ago. No doubt you agree with TM that Greening can get 12 goals from midfield? Bonkers, utterly bonkers. Perhaps Carson can chip in with 3 as well?
The Emperor is wearing no clothes and no one is actually challenging TM for the rubbish that comes out of his mouth - or that he puts on the pitch. Stringing passes together in your own half is all very pretty, but its toothless and ineffective. Sadly i consider good football to be that played in the oppositions half, coherent attacking play involving the team attacking as a unit, rather than individuals making occasional chances without any support or pattern to the play. TM's trying to be too clever for his own good and has tied himself and his players in knots - he's totally lost his way and the basic flaws of his naive approach are being ruthlessly and painfully exploited by even average teams. Its like watching a small, slow child being bullied by older kids - and then continually making the same mistakes over and over. Its depressing and thoroughly sad.
Give TM his P45 as an Xmas present. Its too late to save this season but we might avoid wasting a load of money in january on wages for a load of lightweight, midget midfielders.
Fickle? I've been here 30+ years, boy. I'm not fickle, ive just seen this before at the Albion and i know how the story ends. Lets not repeat the mistakes of the past.
Honestly, people like you would be better served down the Molineux, chap.
Time to stick together lads- we need to show solidarity as a football club. Lets back Mowbray. Lets do the only thing we know. Sing our hearts for the lads. IMWT!
Raj, how is singing going to help? What are we going to sing about, how soft and lovely our midfield's feet are? Maybe a ditty about Mowbray's policies and principles? Or the fact that Shelton Martis is "asset rich". Sack him and sack him now. He's deluded and his post match comments are embarrassing - it's like watching a football version of David Brent with his idiotic insights. It's shameful that the majority of Albion fans actually seem to buy this garbage about us being a good footballing team and there being light at the end of the tunnel.
Good football is not about playing the ball sideways and back in your own half. Albion are so easy to play against it is untrue. The oppo's team talk must be so easy - allow them the ball, they won't go anywhere with it, and wait for them to make a mistake because none of them can defend. Mowbray out.
Time to stick together lads - and demand the manager goes. And Peace can leave too. 7 years of sky money, with the lowest wage bill in the league (lower than Hull and Stoke) is a shameful indictment of Peace's ambition and time at the club.
Yes I tend to agree with Mr Jones, it is all looking disorganised and depressing. I go back even further than him, Kevan, Robson, Howe, Barlow etc were playing when I first went, so I've seen plenty of 'thick & thin', (mostly thin!); what would Astle and Tony Brown's wages buy you now, I wonder? I CANNOT understand why, with Mowbray and Venus being defenders, and Grant a tidy midfielder, are the same defensive errors and poor positioning so often repeated? Does nobody know how to defend against a one-two?! Why for example watch admiringly as Robbie Keane glides into a space, but wait for the ball to reach him before moving? Or obligingly move to cover fresh air, and free a channel for Anelka to run through (etc etc etc).
I CAN understand why TM wants to play football (they did it on a low budget at Hibs, with excellent results) and arguably his method is more entertaining that Megson's at this level (just try to lose one-nil). I CANNOT understand the team choices :- why play Brunt AND Morrison together, ditto Greening AND Valero, that's using 2 shirts for one player, where's the balance?
As for a replacement, how many DECENT managers would rush to join with the budget/wages restrictions? Curbishley and Allardyce ARE available I suppose, both managed well on a budget and got decent results from generally moderate players.
I might go back if and when I think I might get the same thrill from seeing the likes of Regis, Moses, Robson, Cunningham & Cantello, let alone Astle, Brown, Kaye, Clark and Wile, people who could play and looked like they wanted to; I suspect it might be a long wait.
Mowbray is a dreamer, a romantic. He hasn't got the experience of Brown, Pulis etc and it's showing. He thinks football is about pretty passing and pretty players and is condescending to anyone who doesn't think that. Well he he is turning Albion into Derby and is quite prepared to let Peace bend him over and shaft him. He is out of his depth and needs to join the real world. Albion are goners
Those of you who are clearly passionate about getting rid of TM seem to be those who still cling onto the romantic memories of West Brom 30 or 40 years ago. Its time to move on from that and stop comparing this era to Regis, Moses, Robson, Cunningham, Astle, Brown etc.. Those days are gone, get over it.
I'm in support of Mowbray but things are bad at the moment, i'd rather we stick with a manager who has brought us success over the past two seasons and given time he will prove his worth, though he is being taught some harsh lessons at the moment and needs to change his outlook on our tactics.
I agree it is baffling how we are so poor at the back and thats one major flaw that Mowbray has and should have addressed by investing in defenders with Premier League experience over the summer.
But i really think sacking him would do us more harm than good, who would you get in to do any better? Sorry, but Curbishley and Allardyce are not in our league, they'd have other clubs they'd be interested in. So who else do you suggest?
Igor balis, you make some good points. Don't
think all us forty-somethings are whinghers though. I started going up in the Giles era & i'm
still very much in the Mowbray camp! I loved to
see that team of Cunningham, Statham & Cantello &
miss it greatly but Mowbray's been the best since! Let's not turn our back on the guy that
gave us our best season since the 'Big Ron' era.
I.M.W.T.