Rage against the machine
As always seems the case, rows keep rumbling on after the Second City derby.
Apart from a boring 0-0 in 2003, there's always been a controversial spike to these Premier League clashes.
Sunday's was no different. And, in all my years covering them, I can barely recall a Blues team so aggrieved and, quite simply, raging.
This was because Blues had put so much into it, played better overall and were banjoed by Martin Atkinson's penalty decision.
I don't buy the fact that he was too far away or couldn't see the Roger Johnson tackle properly. From my vantage point, in the Trinity Road Stand press box, near to the tunnel, my initial instinct was that he got the ball. I didn't need to look at my television monitor.
So Blues raged all right, and it continued on the final whistle and afterwards.
Alex McLeish and his players knew how much this game meant to supporters, and themselves. There was a lot of professional pride there.
Even though only James McFadden, Liam Ridgewell and Cameron Jerome started the 5-1, to a group they knew that there could not be another. It was a day of reckoning. Never mind that the season is really over, this game mattered.
Blues played with fierce determination but not only that created good chances, played good football - on the deck, they didn't just biff it long - and didn't run out of ideas.
They had a plan and stuck to it intelligently and with a hard focus. Had Blues been beaten comprehensively, McLeish would have got slaughtered for opting 4-5-1.
But he backed his own judgement and his knowledge of this hardy group of players he has assembled, bearing in mind the fact you can't be too loose against Villa and let them run into wide open spaces.
And this was without having Scott Dann and bringing in Gregory Vignal, who had not started since September in the league and had hardly trained all week.
McLeish was well aware of the Christian Benitez debate that had been swirling as well but only the churlish would quibble with the tactics and the approach.
But for more ruthlessness and someone able to sprinkle gold dust in the final third - which is nothing new, as we know, and not necessarily Chucho in that formation either - it would have been different, regardless of Atkinson's error.
On the other hand, can you remember a Villa goalkeeper playing so well against Blues at Villa Park? Brad Friedel was their man-of-the-match. And their defenders defended like Blues defenders, throwing themselves into the line of fire and blocking in front of and clearing from the line.
Blues have taken flak for haranguing Atkinson when he awarded the penalty. Unfortunately, this is what can happen in crunch games like these when you make a cock-up. Emotions get the better of you.
And in this Blues team now there are some very strong, bristling characters who hate to lose, who love a good moan. Who stand up for themselves.
Speaking to the media in the run-up to the game, McLeish said Blues now had backbone and spirit to them, unlike two years ago: 'What I like is the fact that they police themselves, it comes from within'.
McLeish normally stays on an even keel but he lost his composure too. He has never before gone to a referee and mouthed the words he did to Atkinson at the end.
And as for Carr, the 33-year-old captain? Sure, he was disrespectful in scuffing the penalty spot and then the apparent hand-gesturing jog across the front of the North Stand to the tunnel.
Hardly anybody actually witnessed this in the press box - including myself - that's why Carr was not asked about it afterwards by the handful of journalists who waited in the 'mixed zone', the area where players talk - or don't talk - to the press post-match.
By the time the allegation became known, Blues had departed Villa Park.
Carr should have kept himself in check. Yet that rage against the perceived injustice had taken over again and what you see is what you get with the pugnacious Irishman.
And so it is with most of the Blues contingent. And that is a credit to them. The don't hide away under baseball hats and over-sized earphones before scuttling to their transport when they are asked to talk after games.
They front up, win, lose or draw, and are mindful that supporters actually want to hear and read their thoughts.
Other Premier League clubs could learn a thing or two from them and the Blues media department who, despite not having the numbers and resources of others, are accommodating and not obstructive for no apparent reason and always promote the club in the right way, without any control freakery.
But why didn't they stop them saying what was said afterwards, not least Johnson, you might ask?
Because they, and McLeish, treat them like adults. And Blues players wanted to speak, perhaps to articulate their rage and get it off their chests.
In Johnson's case, he was requested by television and the written media, was asked whether he wanted to be interviewed, said 'yes' and was gently warned to be careful in what he said.
He understood but made it clear that he wouldn't hold back; it was how he felt and if he got into trouble, he got into trouble. Like Carr, what you see is what you get.
It may now be six-in-a-row for Villa, but Blues let them know that they are back on the shoulder, striving to improve and close the gap.
In defeat this time, Blues went down not with a whimper and they restored their footballing credibility. It was as if we were back to those early Premier League meetings when the upstarts were the upsetting, unsettling neighbours, with decent quality footabll thrown in too.
The way the rage manifested itself didn't project the best of images at all but it, and the manner Blues performed (as all season in truth) told you about their passion, earthy honesty - and that they are no longer a pushover.
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Colin Tattum - Mail man Colin Tattum's view of what's going on at Birmingham City FC.
Fantastic. Proud of the manager, the team , and the local reporter.
Carr is a legend.
Out played Villa, out sang them, Eck embarrassed O'Neill tactically, out fought them, pirde in the shirt, quality in the performance. Shame we couldn't buy the referee off.
Tatts, Thank you one of your best blogs ever.
You called it absolutely right. The FA will get involved and there will be charges. They just don't get it do they, it's the passion we all want to see and justifiably so but the players will be made to pay.
No mention of sanctions against the referee for what was an horrendous error, he doesn't even have to justify or explain his decision.
It's the first time I have seen Eck loose his cool, it just shows how important that decsion was.
So proud of the team and the manager.
Funny how fans can hurl abuse at players throughout games but as soon as a player does something back they are dragged over the coals for it....
Why should Johnson be warned to be careful in what he said? Is it not a free country anymore? Why should refs escape critism when they make huge errors?
Ref's get huge decisions wrong and are not held accountable for them.. when is someone important gonna stand up and say enough is enough and actually do something about it?
Agreed with everything said. Shame people will forget we were the better team and should have embarrassed a ã200m one dimensional hoofball merchants
Its shocking what happened on sunday.But Blues now must move onwards and upwards.It isnt the 1st time its happend this season,liverpool, Chelsea and Tottenham.For sure video tech would stop all these poor decisions in football but football wouldnt be the same.Its not meant to be perfect and things will go against us again. For me its all part and parcel.Im not sure whether things do even themselves out over a season but i accept the game for what it is.Plus if we have video tech i cant come on here-moan, and write long posts about what i thinks right.haha.lets put sunday behind us lads 2 big games left with teams hot on our heels,lets get that top 10 finish.KRO !!
Absolute drivel. As usual from a rubbish "journalist".
Blues were the better team? They were for about 20-25 minutes, granted. Otherwise this is yet more fantasy to justify yet another derby defeat. Outsang? I couldn't hear Blues fans once and I'm not just saying that. At least you stayed to the end this time though.
To be honest, I dont care if the penalty was justified or not, and two referees have since come out and explained why it WAS a penalty so make sure you're sure it was incorrect before saying so.
Gabby would have got the ball after Johnsons challenge had he not scissored him to the deck. But like I say, it happens, its no excuse to go pushing the ref, throwing hissy fits, jumping around like crazed chimps, trying to scuff the penalty spot and making obscene gestures to fans. How embarrasing.
And this can be justified by being full of "rage" can it? I think not.
Just another example of Birmingham City making a show of themselves in front of the nation yet again.
Bottom line: Villa were below par, had about 3 quarters of the match comfortably, Blues had about a quarter of it, bothe keepers were excellent and Villa won with disputed penalty. If you want to dream about being the better side and it makes you feel better, carry on. But its fantasy and you know it.
Next time, less "rage" and more composure and you never know, you might spoil Villas lucky 7 streak.
But a word of sympathy. We know how you feel. We were hard done by in our cup final too.
Take it most of you prats don't know the rules regarding winning the ball then?
Out played, out sang, yeah right keep dreaming.
'Carr Legend'- sums up you lot and your pathetic nothing club.
As for buying of the ref, thought you were lucky to finish the game with 11 players.
In future try engaging your brains before spouting such drivel.
Mazrim, welcome to the ranks of sanctimonious, classless Villans, just like your manager. I wonder what NoDealÃÅœs reaction would have been had that decision gone against him. He makes Wenger look fair! Accurate and well written Blog as usual Tatts!As for you Villan, are you saying Andy Gray was wrong then, muppet!
Rage! Have a word with yourself mate, look at how Villa were robbed in the carling cup final and the fa cup semi final. Look at the reaction and the interviews of our players. That's how a player should be - professional. Not a bunch of Neanderthals throwing hissy fits because they didn't get their way. Villa were poor and still won. Also their seemed to be quite a few empty seats in the Blues end...
Classless Villa fans Lloyd?
Did you see the banner the Police had to take down? Did you see one of your fans throw a seat at the North stand, but it came back and hit one of his darts shirt wearing comrades instead? But best of all did you see the guy your fellows are now calling a "legend" try and scuff the penalty spot, push the ref and make obscene gestures to stand with kids in it?
This "legend" had retired from football by the way because nobody wanted him before he got the call to serve the mighty Blues.
Tell me about class again?
You or anybody else connected with your mickey mouse club wouldn't know class if it went back in time and fathered you.
Thanks for the six points and for not making us work harder for them. We've had a busy week after all.
That you know class Carr as a hero for making an utter arse of himself (and he's the club captain!) tells me all I need to know about you're truly classless club.
That this is looking like being your best season since Pongo Waring was a lad tells me all I need to know about who have always been the club that represents this great city.
Before we start I am a bluenose and proud to be one. However I can see some of the Villa ladâÂÂs points. If we are all honest that game should have been a draw. Blues went to stop Villa playing and on the whole did. However Villa won and I donâÂÂt begrudge them the result, (I do really but I am trying to be level headed), and I would have taken it if the luck had gone our way.
As to the blues players reaction, I am fairly sure that the colour of the shirt they had on had very little bearing on the behaviour. These were adrenalin pumped up sports men who reacted badly after, what they feel, was an unjust decision. I am sure that if the boot had been on the other foot that Villa fans would also be pointing to the passion their players had shown just as much, Dion Dublin anyone?
Villa won, blues lost, if you support Blues it hurts if you support Villa it donâÂÂt. It keeps the banter alive I just hope itâÂÂs our turn to be cocky soon.
"The way the rage manifested itself didn't project the best of images at all but it, and the manner Blues performed (as all season in truth) told you about their passion, earthy honesty - and that they are no longer a pushover."
No, but their bigger and better neighbours can still beat them playing well below par.
Still, losing 6 in a row has to hurt.
Right, arguments about class aside for just a second: It was a penalty. It was a penalty. It was a CLEAR penalty.
âÂÂI don't buy the fact that he was too far away or couldn't see the Roger Johnson tackle properly.â Buy the fact that it was the correct decision by watching the replays and understanding the laws of the game.
Johnson's touch did NOT dispossess Agbonlahor - he was still had the ball, was in control of it, and was running towards goal. And then THIS happened - http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo7/flyingbrummie/VillaPen25-04-10.jpg?t=1272217095. And you are saying that's NOT a penalty?
What's worse is, aside from completely failing to understanding the laws of the game, you are then trying to justify some of the most childish, amateurish and unprofessional behaviour ever seen on a Premiership football pitch (and that is saying something) because of this correct decision. Of course the Blues can feel hard done by because as you point out they did play well (just about shaded it IMO) â but regardless of how well you play, regardless of how wrong you feel the decision was, it does not give your player the excuse to act like a seething bunch of lunatics in the referees face. It does not give your goalkeeper the excuse to dish out abuse at a young ball boy. It does not give your CAPTAIN (the player who is meant to embody and represent all that is honourable within the club) the excuse to act like a stroppy braindead abusive child.
And yes Lloyd, we are saying Andy Gray is wrong. It happens. Quite a lot of the time actually. Just because all the pundits and Evening Mail journalists can go âÂÂBUT HE GOT THE BALL!?!?!?â doesnâÂÂt mean the rest of us arenâÂÂt intelligent enough to realise that you also have to dispossess the player if youâÂÂre going to follow it up with a complete clattering of the playerâÂÂs legs.
And I think Mazrim has done quite a decent job of pointing out your utter hypocrisy in suggesting Villa fans lack âÂÂclassâÂÂ. A banner (which looked like it had been made by 6 year olds) about a murder and seats thrown at your own fans. Classy.
They get very patronising and superior Villa fans don't they? always have been arrogant and ignorant. Blues played better, had more shots, unlucky to lose, were kippered by a bad penalty decision. Players lost their cool understandably with the emotions running high. There is more passion among our team than their bunch of pansies. ã200m spent under Martin O'Myth and won nothing is their bottom line
FAO Gazza
By 'bad penalty decision', I assume you mean 'correct penalty decision'?
But keep your chinsd up, you never know, you might still have your best season in your history.
mazrim, villan et al, days later and you are still trying to make excuses. Great piece, well written. Blues had the run of the pitch and won all battles except the one with the ref. Truth is, our team cost a fraction to put together compared to the opposition. The player who won the penalty did nothing the whole game except for fall down and win free kicks and a penalty. If you're happy with that fair enough, enjoy! As for fourth place, enjoy the europa league next season. Hand gestures after a derby game - seems we've all forgotten o'dreary running to the other side of the pitch to shake his fist etc
Is it coincidence that every picture on the page is worthy of attention from the ref? It really seems odd that you've got Blues players grabbing the heads of Villa players, taking out their feet and complaining to the officials.
Blues played their best game against an uninspired Villa side...wasn't enough to win but it was the best they could do. Fair enough.
"mazrim, villan et al, days later and you are still trying to make excuses."
We won the game and yet we are the ones making excuses?? Sorry, can you point out these 'excuses' and tell me what exactly they are 'excusing'? No you can't because you've just used a buzz phrase with no idea of what it means.
"Great piece, well written." No, it's a heavily partisan biased view from an unofficial Blues mascot - and if you want EXCUSES, then this article is literally begging to excuse the disgraceful behaviour of your players, as well as excuse why you lost. Yet again.
"Blues had the run of the pitch and won all battles except the one with the ref." No, you didn't win all the battles did you? If you won all the battles then Friedel would have been a lot more worked than Joe Hart. As it stands, both had to make a number of saves before your centre half got caught short and then made the wrong decision to make a tackle. The ref called it correctly. It was a pretty even game, you may have even been the better team, but to claim you 'won' all the battles is a joke.
"Truth is, our team cost a fraction to put together compared to the opposition." And that's why they've lost to them 6 times in a row.
"The player who won the penalty did nothing the whole game except for fall down and win free kicks and a penalty. If you're happy with that fair enough, enjoy!" Actually he was a constant outlet throughout the whole game, without which would probably have led to the Blues overruning us. But as he was constantly on the shoulder of your back line you always had the counter attack to worry about. Just so happens you didn't worry about it enough. All he did was fall down... having made a run which deceived your slow witted centre half who then thought throwing his whole body into a tackle in the box was a good idea. Oh, and yes I am happy with that if it means we're 17 points and 6 games better than you - which we are.
"As for fourth place, enjoy the europa league next season." Thanks, enjoy, erm, doing f*** all again next season.
"Hand gestures after a derby game - seems we've all forgotten o'dreary running to the other side of the pitch to shake his fist" 1) So you're not allowed to criticise a player cos someone else did something vaguely similar once? 2) Going over and punching the air in the direction of your chairman is a little different to what Stephen Carr did 3) None of us have forgotten, we're just intelligent enough to realise it's irrelevant as O'Leary left the club 4 years ago and yet Stephen Carr is still your captain!
Your fans are genuinely the thickest of all time
Oh, and Gazza, you call us 'ignorant' and then claim that there is no passion among our bunch of pansises? Strange how we've won 6 derby games in a row then isn't it??
ã200m spent and no trophies is our bottom line... For starters, it's nowhere near that match - your ignorance. Secondly, there are only 4 trophies any team can potentially win in a season. Obviously we can't win the league, and we got pretty close to winning 2 of the others this year.
And in any case, it's a better bottom line than 135 years of existance and no trophies.
OOOh Bas, get you, the amount of time you spent writing that utter tripe, youÃÅœd think it was Villa that lost,getting worried are you, that your selling club will be upstaged next season. You bunch of mincing hypocritical squeeling girls blouses. Nip off back to Aston and sing that song your so proud of...Veeeela Veeeela....
As for trophies, what have you won recently!! Bye muppets!
Disgraceful scenes by B'ham players at the penalty decision on the referee during the match and after the match with Larsson openly swearing at the referee with TV viewers watching. Also Alex McLeish who should know better going face to face with the official. To prevent this in the future the ref should have sent off the key culprits of the marauding players after the penaly decision. Hopefully he will file a report resulting in a heavy fine for McLeish and his thugs for the way they go about things.Not only this we have Johnson bringing the game in to disrepute with his childish remarks. It may have been a harsh decision but is this the way to conduct oneself? Not only that in front of TV viewers. More importantly what sort of an example does it send to children. Fine heavily and get on with it. Be men and not act like thugs.
McLeish may have a better team than he had 12 months ago but you have to question his team's mental state. Unbelievable.
So Lloyd, you are basically saying you don't have a single response to anything I said. Why else would you call it 'utter tripe' but fail to point out a single hole in it? Go on, expalin how anything I've said is mincey or hypocritical. You literally can't because it's all correct! You can't respond to a single point I've made, you've just spouted a bunch of Bluenose cliche at me (Veela Veela, big girls blouses, "upstaged next year" (heard that for about 10 years now mate))
And the only way we're a selling club is that we sell all our rejects to you. Because they're sh**.
You sound like a 12 year old wannabe hard man. If you aren't then you need to go to school again. If you are, then go out and enjoy the sun child. And for the love of God, support a less scummy football team.
Lloyd don't you dare! You stay a bluenose ....clearly from the retarded drivel you have typed; almost certainly with a considerably heavy probe strapped to your oversized, deformed forehead, you have found the perfect team already, perfect for your low intellectual level....
A match made somewhere well South of Heaven....
So Blues are,"back on Villa's shoulder" are they Mr Tattum?
Last time I looked it was 17 points.
Just who are you trying to kid?
Leave them be. It must be hard.
I can't think of any other side that's lost 6 cup finals in a row.
Bas, I suggest you read the laws of the game, and not post one-off screen-caps. Johnson got the ball, ergo his was not a challenge for "space" which is unlawful if contact is made. By taking the ball the only thing he could have been penalized for was making a dangerous challenge, which it was by no stretch of the imagination.
It was a penalty.
Milner scored it.
You lost.
Again.
all you villa supporters who are looking down your nose at blues as a club and us as supporters in usual arrogant fashion should bear in mind that
a)some people choose to support the underdog and have the necessary strength of character to do so
and
b) you have as many 'scummy' hooligan fans as we do, but at least ours reflect the diversity of our fine city, and are not self named after the Hitler Youth
Flamingo:
Oh bless, are the nasty Villa fans upsetting you? At least you've got a better brand of thug to fall back on.....
You make it too easy for us lads, on and off the pitch.
dion dublin's action against robbie savage were impecable and set a great example for kids everywhere didnt he, i would rather players show their emotion and their passion than do as their supporters from witton and just be fickle.bring on next season IF you still have the same manager that is .randy's getting restless with 200 million spent and only a europa league place to show for it..MONEY WELL SPENT.i think not village idiots
Where has this ã200million figure come from?
Oh dear. Maybe you should release a dvd of the game considering how well you played.
Lol! When have facts ever clouded a noses judgement?
They have been feeding on speculation and wishful thinking since their very humble beginnings.....
Naieve to expect any diffence after this long. All that family inbreeding has only seen fit to dilute an already tainted and infested gene pool....It needs some kind-hearted Villa fan to at least take a dump in there, in the vain hope of improving all that infected DNA...but would you hang around 'em with your rusty sherrifs badge on display...? I think not..and so the festering continues.......
Stephen Carr is a Peer amongst equals at St Andrews, absolutely no class whatsoever. Just for the record the bigger clubs always get the contentious decisions as pointed out by your manager.
howard nichols
nice to see you admit it was a contentious decision
jeff there is only 1 thing festering at vile park regarding villa's DNA which must stand for
DID NOTHING AGAIN
for the thick people of aston if you add up all the players randy has sanctioned moaner o neil to buy it equals approx 200 million thats how you get the figure 200 million.
now i know blues havnt won much in their history and yes we are in your shadow of success but there is a new regime with a new wind blowing and considering we have only spent 10 million we have done great,the mark of success will come from now on with blues coming closer and closer to villa who are still living on the glory of 30 years ago
Villa fans really have a problem don't they? They know they don't play any football just launch it, they know their manager is off as he's been found out, they know they cant even beat poor Man Utd (reserves) and Chelsea at Wembley - MON bleat about penalties then, did he? - they know Blues should have won but didn't fair enough, that's football, they know they live in the past Historians FC and they have to resort to swearing on here in making points. See you next season when you will again win as much silverware as we will.
http://www.astonvilla.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=750042
plus the following this season
downing - 12m
dunne - 5m
collins - 4.5m
warnock - 7.5m
delph - 7.5m
beye - 3.5
doesn't come anywhere near 200 mill. Don't forget the money we have recouped on the players sold such as cahill, ridgewell, Gardner, knight. Further he has spent this money over 4 seasons - hardly Chelsea-esque. We were relegation candidates when he came to the club.
Why am I shocked at how bitter the Birmingham fans are?
Why am I shocked at how smug, patronising and arrogant Villa fans are?
135 years and all you've got is "robbed by the ref" and "we out sang the villa"?
Alex McLeish got one thing right. He knew his place. Small teams don't get the decisions against big clubs.
THE JOY OF SIX
So the way you go about claiming that Blues got cheated by the ref is to show them with the hands on the oppositions heads and abusing the ref? Are you for real?
How do they let you write this rubbish?
Just because a player touches the ball it doesn't mean it can't be a foul.
Have you not seen about all of these referee's coming out and saying it clearly was a penalty? No course you haven't because that would get in the way of you writing complete rubbish.
"Carr is a legend" Say's it all really.
Martin O'Neill is a legend says it all really.
I wonder what excuses you'll come out with for small heath players haranguing and surrounding the referee in the first half, for some awful reckless challenges including Larsson's two bookable first half lunges, Johnson's shirt pulling (and fight with his team mate) and Gardners assault on Petrov?
Are they psychic as well as ill disciplined, were they upset at the injustices to come?
In truth the penalty was what one pundit said it was, maybe the right decision and maybe the wrong decision but not a bad decision.
I think it's a penalty, but then I'm a Villa fan so I would, you think it wasn't but you're a nose so you would, ultimately from the referee's position it looked nothing short of nailed on and he had to give it.
Still, thank you for playing the fawning apologist Colin, I hope they look after you for it.
At the end of the day one team lost their heads, the other won the game and it had started a long time before the penalty.
Hi Telford as you can see I don't live behind a screen name.
Contentious to you guys not to the 3 professional referees, However the point I was making, which you seemed to miss completely was that your manager actually said that Villa are a bigger club than Blose. Add to that although we didn't play anywhere near our best we were still too good for you. Bring into the equation the total lack of class your team showed and you can see why the Villa are never ever going to live in your shadow, plus we even had a parade for you to show you what a trophy looks like. That's if you actually went to the game.
Oooohhhh Howard, a trophy parade!! For the reserve league title and or youth cup thanks to the 'local' players you spend millions on nicking from other clubs or overseas? Ask your academy people what they think of MON and his crew at first team level. Very interesting. So what happened to the trophies you were supposedly going to win at Wembley this season? In four years - Omar O'Neill take note - your messiah manager (lol) has spent ã200m and won...what? No wonder Randy has woken up to the myth and wants him gone
Omar, add the wages as well and you will be getting to the ã200m figure. As at 2007-8 Villa's debt was ã78m; since then Lerner has put in another ã82m. Player wages in 2008-9 were ã70.6m. Even though Villa made a profit on transfers by selling Barry, they still made a loss of ã43m on the season.
Two things to note. One, the loans Lerner has made are repayable by 2019. Two, if UEFA's self-sufficiency thing comes in in 2012, the only Birmingham team in Europe will be the one wearing royal blue.
As a Blues fan its hard to take criticism from Villa fans who only 3 weeks ago where booing there own manager and ringing national and local radio stations demanding his sacking(he will most likely walk at seasons end) but lets forget that,last season gave your best striker so much stick even clapping when he got taken off but hay you know your football so let pretend it didnt happen.
Sunday Blues played IMO the best football had the best chances but bottom line we lost,dodgy decision in my eyes but i would say that great Derby bad result for us end of.
Lee Hendrie 2-0 up doing something similar i remember! local Derbys are about passion any villa van complaining should get a life and look forward to next years installment
Villa's hoofball is worse than Stoke's or Blackburn's. The ã200m, dummy, is O'Neill spend in four year of winning nothing. The bloke is an absolute charlatan. You lot don't even realise it, so funny!Does he know he has 7 subs he's allowed to choose from? lol. Randy's been quiet...again...O'Neill will jump before he is pushed and go back to Shepshed, similar stature club than the Historians
"the only Birmingham team in Europe will be the one wearing royal blue."
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Time to reel them in Mr Tattum.
Blues in Europe - LOL.
Ah right 200m includes wages, how silly of me. We still have one of the smallest wage bills in the top 8, just shows you how well MON has done.
We can argue about these points all day long. Blues have done well, no question. But it's one season. Let's not get carried away. End of the day we have won 6 in a row. We are have challenges for the FA Cup and League Cup. We are right in the mix for fourth with 2 games to go. That to me is a very good season and successful one. Success for you lot is only conceding 2 goals against us in 2 games and rounding up enough fans to fill half of your allocation at Villa Park. Well done.
If Villa "have one of the smallest wage bills in the top 8" explain why their wages to turnover is 80+% when it should be no more than 60%.
Villa cup runs - one Premiership team played in total (and that was at home) until they came unstuck.
Blues sold out the allocation given for the Four Sheds.
Omar word dont let the facts get in the way. Villas team cost over five times as much as Blues yet what have you won this season apart from debatable penalties ? As much as Portsmouth !!!!!!!!!!
With your money spent damn right you should be in Europe,not challenging with just a few games left.
Enjoy your debt.As your club records show these have to be paid back.Good luck chasing the dream,so far it has won you nothing
@7-1Chelsea
ã200m and MON has won nothing, fair enough.
100 years, and you've won nothing.
"Blues in Europe - LOL."
Why is it LOL? If the solvency test comes in, Villa, Man City and Chelsea will certainly fail. Depending on how it's worded Liverpool and Man U will as well (which means they won't of course). Puts us in sixth minimum on this season's form. And the teams immediately below us would also fail the solvency test.
The only chance you bunch of clowns have of making Europe is if they bring back the Anglo-Italian Cup.
"We'll be betta dan 'da Villa when dey change 'da rules about muney, innit?"
bluearmyfaction - you are clutching at straws in the most desperate of bluenose manners. You've clearly thought about how you can try and twist every single fact into an anti-Villa pro-Blues future, when realistically both clubs are probably headed the right way, but Villa on a much bigger scale. Deal with it.
Howard Webb - you literally know nothing about football. Congrats
Honestly, those comments I've just read are pathetic. I'm a blues fan firstly, we should just get over the penalty decision, get over the fact we lost and look forward to next time. We played really well, deserved something from the game but we got nothing, it's our fault we couldn't take our chances. That's why Villa have spent 15m on people like Milner. In fairness, he's a class act, as are a few others in there team. However, I really really like the way Mcleish tries to be prudent, because if I was a Villa fan who'd seen 12m spent on that useless Squirrel on the wing (12 MILLION HONESTLY!) i'd be livid. Especially when you can have Adam Johnson for half of that. Fact is, Villa should be beating us, they're a top 7 team, we're a newly promoted side. Let's just try again next year.
The constant crap put forward by Blues & Villa fans about gene pools, intelligence levels etc is absolutely pathetic. Villa fans will always be the most arrogant fans i've ever met, at least with Arsenal/Man U fans there's something to back it up with, you know tropies they've won in the past 10 years.
Being runners up in cup finals is not success, eventually finishing in the same position as last season after spending even more money (my prediction) will not be success. So why don't you concentrate on winning something before hurling insults our way. 99% of football fans will see a promoted team with a minimal spend finishing 9th in the Prem as success.
Just grow up, get off your high horse and act like proper football fans instead of complete morons.
Well said Tom Hatton. Villa fans are incredibly arrogant and have nothing to crow about.They have a manager who is vastly over rated and who the media love to bum and an average bunch of players who have cost millions. They can hark back to the last century all they like they need to win something before they can earn any respect
The only reasons Villa fans are 'crowing' on here is because there's a bunch of desperate Bluenoses trying to defend the childish actions of their small time players. The most desperate of which is a Mr Tattum.
Actually Mr Hatton, success is an entirely relative concept, so considering we were 16th 4 years ago, cup finals/semi finals and 3 top 6 finishes on the trot IS quite clearly success. It's not an ABSOLUTE success like winning a trophy, but it is quite obviously relative success, just like you finishing 9th will be relative success for a club such as yourselves.
You say finishing in the same place 'having spent more money' isn't success - but you completely fail to take into account that our competitors have all spent more money than us! I wonder why your brain would just omit that fine detail?
These ridiculous attempts to smear any achievement Villa have - "long ball side" "ã200m spent and no trophies lolz" "Lerner's gettin bored init" - is just straw cluthcing at its most blatant.
I'll grant you Downing is a particularly underwhelming player thus far...
In all honesty, all this "my team's better than your team" is actually quite funny/pathetic. With regards to the game, Blues had more of it, as can be seen from the stats, had more chances - on and off target, Friedel was in excellent form, Blues deserved something from the game, the players and manager shouldn't have reacted the way they did (but let's be honest, villa players/manager/fans would have done the same) and it was definitely not a penalty. And really, the "dna", and other nasty comments you would expect from kids. Grow up.
success is a relative concept. Hmm. So Blues are actually as successful as Villa. Hmmm.
In fairness I completely take on board the spend of other clubs comment, something that I didn't include in my first post. However I would challenge what you've said about being 16th by comparing it to the plight Spurs were in under Ramos, i.e. you were in a false position. You clearly weren't a side who belonged in 16th, you were under acheiving, the sum of quality at your disposal was less than the end product on the pitch. So yes it is successful establishing yourselves as a top 7 club but I do feel you're blowing it out of proportion somewhat. In Spurs case, bottom of the league with 2 points from 8 games was a false position, therefore all the media fawning over Redknapp dragging them up the table was also blown out of proportion.
I'm please that at least one of you can find the humility to praise our excellent season. I also have to say well done on still being in the mix for 4th and getting to Wembley twice, however one thing that surely must surprise some of you is that there are still some fans Booing after that season? This is where the allegations of being fickle and arrogant come from, that you can boo a team at HALF TIME in the first game of the season really is unbelievable. Unfortunately a lot of the decent Villa fans out there get tarred by the same brush as the moronic keyboard warriors that speak such rubbish on here.
See you next season. Up the blues.
It is easy when a game has ben won by fair means or not to take the high ground and simply say we won and that is it.
The fact is the margin between the two sides over the two games this season is closer than the Villa fans would either like or no doubt admit to.
Ask anyone whom didn't know the two teams which of the sides cost 20 million and which one cost 130 million and the answer wouldn't be obvious.
What I don't understand is since the Vills fans were all so confident we were certain to go down this year and were going to be such an easy touch for the two games why are they so excited about beating us ? Surely it was foregone conclusion ? The fact is they know it hasn't been and that we are improving rapidly and too close for comfort. Ok, the points gap is widening right now but that is because of the lack of depth in our squad. But face the facts, we have been up there with you for most of the season.
But there lies the crux of the problem. Villa fans are arrogant, they have delusions of grandeur of mixing with the big boys.Until they realise they are nowhere near, or indeed likely to be so with a manager whom doesn't have that ingredient to take them that extra mile, they will remain disappointed. Hence the periodic booing.
All season I have been hearing from Vills fans that they are a top four club. Get real, you have only recently moved into the top six.
The Villa are a team built on pace and long ball over the top. The opposition is used to it now. The percieved threat of the wide players that all the Villa fans were warning me about before Sunday just didn't materialise. The forwards are average and Agbonlahor, like Jerome at the Blues, would never be a footballer if he were not lightning quick.
So I suggest you Villians start smelling the coffee and wake up. Get back to the days before AVFC meant Arrogant Villa Football Club !!
One final(Refs Fault) one semi final(Refs Fault) fighting for fourth place yet three weeks ago your manager was taking so much stick he was on the verge of walking out, knowledge fans i dont think so or maybe they are sick of watching the ball 60 foot in the air maybe they do know there stuff really!
Empty seats in our end? we all know we sold our allocation the big question is why the old bill only let us have under 3000 tickets not the clubs why is it right the Police can limit our tickets
I'm a neutral in this game (Spurs fan) and I have to say that it was a disgrace the way that the Blues fans crowded the ref when the penalty was given.
I don't remember the Villa players acting this way when they were denied a penalty against Chelsea or when Vidic didn't get sent off in the Carling Cup...?
This article is a bit of a farse to be honest. Justifying the Blues players' anger? .. "But why didn't they stop them saying what was said afterwards, not least Johnson, you might ask. Because Mcleish treats them like adults.."
I, like others commenting on here, can't believe some of the pictures linked into this article. Ridgewell's hand around Carew's head? Shouldn't that be a red-card itself?
So it's a disgrace for the players to be upset and angry about a decision they felt was wrong, bearing in mind it was a massive local derby of which they were in the ascendency? Yes they should of calmed themselves and I can't condone the penalty spot incident, however by the sounds of it if we had it your way we'll have a neutered game of football with no passion.
I find the moral high ground stance from a Spurs fan quite amusing. A very classy club that sings vile homophobic songs about an ex-player. Whiter than white indeed.
A lot of people here haven't actually read the blog properly in context. I don't see it justifying anything just a mixture of comment and reporting what Blues felt and why. Some good points in it, some I personally don't agree with and I'm a Blues fan. Ironically people are slating it for being biased but they are only seeing what they want to see when reading from it therefore guilty of the same thing! It is a Blues blog after all I guess if general krulak or randy lerner did one Villa fans would be happier? Or maybe Martin Atkinson should be asked instead?
To be honest, I'm not even a big soccer fan. But some big lads (who supported Blues) bullied me at school. I've always been small for my age and they used to steal my dinner money, and the pink ladies wouldn't do anything.
I asked my mom who are Blues biggest rivals, she said Villa. I've supported them ever since. I even went down the ground once, when big Ron was manager.
I follow villa for similar reasons too Leeb. I was once racially abused by several Blues fans outside my shop in Small Heath. So I decided get revenge and pick Villa as my team. I don't go to Villa Park too often though as most my friends like Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea.
Having read most of the letters above and now the season is over,with the world cup starting I think in the cold light of day that we at city can look forward to a real clash of the "titans" next season! we are closer to villa than they would like to admit, but still have some way to go! with the signings already and others impending, I wonder who will get the bragging rights next season? I can honestly say that I don't think they will have it all their own way next time, all I hope is that we make sure
that we do not have to wait for Mr Agbondlahor to do his Steven Gerard act! infact I could see it coming as the game wore on, I said as much to my son ten minutes before! we must score more goals and take our chances then the divers of the "prem" will not matter so much! while the official's continue to turn a blind eye as they did in Villa's final too,(remember Ridgewells goal against Sunderland" and that's not sour grapes just plain stupidity!good luck to all Midland teams next season! the past has gone!