Brucie or Eck?
Beatles or Stones? Blur or Oasis? Coe or Ovett? Federer or Nadal? Georgie Thompson or Kirsty Gallacher?
We all have our favourites when it comes to rivalries (OK, one of the above is not really a rivalry but gratuitous, yet what the hey).
So, where do you stand on Steve Bruce v Alex McLeish?
There's a debate going on at the moment fuelled by Bruce securing Wigan Athletic's Premier League status and Blues current position under McLeish.
One newspaper said that Blues should eat humble pie for cashing in on Bruce to the tune of £3 million. By
inference, the suggestion was that McLeish wasn't a patch on him.
Needless to say, it didn't go down well in the corridors of power at St Andrew's, Essex and Surrey. And McLeish was hardly chuffed.
The pro-Bruce arguments are that he has worked his magic to turn round Wigan's fortunes. He was able to rouse Blues to secure 'must win' games this season too. And Wigan were second-from-bottom when
he took over. No doubt, he has done a superb job.
His track record, over six years at St Andrew's, was good. The blot was relegation and the Liverpool 7-0 (it still makes you shudder) but he will always be held in high regard in years to come for what he did for the club.
And I will always maintain that to haul Blues out of the Championship given the circumstances and incredible pressure at the first attempt was an achievement that has never been given the credit it truly deserves.
You could argue that Bruce knew what he was doing when he got out, that the Blues team he put together under financial constraints was always going to struggle.
And he admitted as much to McLeish after Wigan beat Blues.
He also saw the writing on the wall with regard to the Carson Yeung farce. And, after so long, he knew it was probably time for a change, especially when the board's eyes lit up at the thought of a £3 million 'transfer' fee.
At Wigan, you could also say he inherited more quality, more know-how and more strength - as was shown at the JJB Stadium when Blues were nailed good and proper.
Blues were only three points ahead of Wigan when he went there, and the 'must win' games, earlier in
the season, didn't have nearly as much riding on them than those recently at the business end of the
campaign.
McLeish's learning curve has been steep. Until you work for Blues, you don't quite know how different
the club is to most others, Bruce used to say.
And he has had to get a handle on the players, and the politics, on the fly.
McLeish regrets not pushing for more players in the transfer window and although outwardly he isn't as gregarious as Bruce, he has a dry sense of humour and is as passionate about football,and boasts an
encyclopedic knowledge.
As for getting the team motivated and 'up' for important games, don't think he and his assistant Roy
Aitken and Andy Watson just sit on their hands quietly in the dressing room. Sometimes, it's to do with
what's inherent.
Tactics? Wasn't Bruce 'tactically inept' and Alan Curbishley [a rigid Mr Cautious] the answer?
McLeish is meticulous in his preparation and thorough in the way he sets teams out.
Yes, maybe he could have done this and that a bit differently, used Daniel de Ridder off the bench perhaps, shored it up away from home by packing the midfield and so on.
But there were similar arguments re Bruce and he got scolded for his 'one off the front' approach. It's easy to come up with the answers with the benefit of hindsight.
McLeish has got grief for saying Blues have improved since he took over.
The context here is important: McLeish was asked the question in a press conference, and answered in
the affirmative, if you take into account statistics.
He accepted that Blues position was grim and other teams might have got better during the same period.
He wasn't trying to trash Bruce or blow his own trumpet. Interpretation is everything.
What was a proud man who has belief in his ability and is keen to accentuate the positive going to say,
I'm a duffer?
Indeed, the pair, near neighbours in south Birmingham, get on. Bruce has offered to take McLeish out for
a pint (or two maybe) to fill him in on Blues.
My view is that even if Bruce had stayed, or A N Other took over instead of McLeish, a scrap against
relegation would still have entailed.
Ultimately, if you spend top dollar on top performers, and unearth one or two gems along the way, you will get top results more consistently. As the saying goes, it ain't rocket science.
People can argue all they like - and that's one of the great beauties of the beautiful game - both Bruce
and McLeish are similar in that they wanted and want what's best for Blues. And McLeish has only been
in the job five minutes. The time to assess him is not now.
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Colin Tattum
Mail man Colin Tattum’s view of what’s going on at Birmingham City FC.
Bruce will always have a special place as far as I'm concerned. He was the first manager to take us into the premier league, (twice!), gave us a double over the villa, and we had 2 pretty decent seasons at the top.
However, we became very predictable, long ball chase football. It was time for a change. It's a pity things ended the way they did - but the change will prove to be for the best I'm sure of it.
We play better football under Eck - however the defence needs a major overhaul. I'm confident we can become a better team under him, even if it means a drop to the Championship.
I just hope the board put their money where there consistanly open mouths are and support him in the transfer market.
As far as looking back - well you mentioned Oasis, so let's not look back in anger eh?
I've said it before and I'll say it again I'd rather get relegated with Alex McLeish than stay up with Steve Bruce.
He might keep Wigan up next season but he'll struggle after that. Let's not forget than we're not down yet but even if it happens I think that long term McLeish will prove to be the much better manager.
Tough choice but I'd go for Georgie Thompson. Kirsty Gallagher is the obvious choice but Georgie has got it going on. Di Stewart and Clare Tomlinson are prety fit too...
Brucie did a job for us, but i think his time had come to move on. I don't think he could have taken us that step up i.e. mid table/outside chance of europe. It is very early days for Big Eck, but things just do not seem to be clicking for some reason. Hopefully he will have a bit (emphasis on the 'bit'!!) of money to spend in the summer so he can build his own squad. I have got faith him at the moment - he did a good job with the scottish lads. Lets see what he can do here...
Brucies insistance on starting with 1 striker, then changing to 4-4-2 with 20-30 mins to go clearly wasn't working (5 near identical defeats out of his last 6 games in charge)so Eck starting with 2 strikers made sense and we have improved going forward. However, the one constant throughout the season has been the conceding of soft goals, especially from set pieces.
My one criticism of Eck would be that he didn't appear to have any alternatives when the Gary Cahill deal fell through.
It certainly hasn't helped our cause, that the players for all their fine words about fight and not freezing, just don't want to know when the pressure is on.
Remember, Bruce has been "successful" at Wigan with someone else's team.
McLeish has had to struggle here with Bruce's team.
Give Bruce time and he will get Wigan relegated with his own players; let's see where McLeish's team are then.
In the not too distant past, Brucie was fired by Huddersfield and thought he would never work again. He was so hard up, he did the labouring on his own house extension to reduce the bill. He was a self confessed working man, proud of his roots and hence his great affinity to the Blues, recognising that we are the other end of the spectrum from the prawn sandwich clubs. For these reasons, I loved him to bits. However I am sure Alex McLeish is from a similar hardy background. He has a great head on him. Week in week out, he says that we will fight to the death and then following each defeat, he praises the team for their effort, whilst we say what a shower we were. Believe it or not that is good man management!. McLeish inherited a very poor squad and had incredible bad luck in the transfer window, due mainly to the Board's mishandling of the Yeung debacle. We may go down or we may stay up, either way 2009/2010 will be a great premiership season for us and McLeish will get the credit for it!!.
Firstly, let's not give up on Sunday. The pressure is on Fulham, and to a lesser extent, Reading. If we are to go down, let's not go with a whimper ala Newcastle last time...
As for Brucie, good luck to him. He did a good job bearing in mind the financial constraints at Blues. However, as with Tf his time had come...
Alex needs time and funding. When it's his team and we're struggling we can then consider his position, if that time arrives.
Finally, how ironic that Brucie plays a midfield four including Valencia, Palacious ( who never featured in the middle at Blues ) and Kumas,when he hardly ever shifted from his preference for two defensive players ( Dunn & Kilkenny being the rare exceptions ). Not only did he not play
attacking central midfielders, he never - Ghaly aside - tried to acquire any!
KRO
MisterFrain
Blues fans had gone off Bruce even though they were winning in the championship. His time had come. He was great for the club but had served his time. Sadly it came as a result of a bungled takeover bid. Bruce inherited a stronger squad at Wigan, including experienced players we had to let go when relegated. McLeish has bought in good players and I am thrilled McFadden is commited to staying. Had we got the other Villan who went to Bolton we would have stayed up. What Blues need now is the kind of support Derby gets when they are losing every game. We also need investors who have money in the bank. Lets back McLeish to the hilt.
A good read and a fair assessment. I believe that Alex should be given time to build his own team, if this is in the championship and then so be it! I hope if we do go down, he is still given time to rebuild.
I was a fan of Bruces as he worked miracles on a shoe string to be honest! Lets hope that Alex can do the same, or can convince the board to splash some cash or we get new owners who are willing to work at a loss in the short term to guarantee a profit in the long term!
I respect the board and KB for how financially sound the club now is (especially from where they have taken it from) and how tight the business is! We never get ripped off in the market and it appears KB drives a hard bargin! However the second coming of the premiership should have seen the cash flow as we should have learnt that you can not build by penny pinching over the short term!
I don't think Brucie would've done much better with the squad we had, maybe he could've done a bit better in the transfer window than McLeish did, ala our first season up when he picked up Upson. It's pretty much Brucie's squad though spineless as it is and that's been the biggest problem, lack of experience and leadership in the centre of defence and midfield.
Muamba has great potential but needs an experienced head in there with him, someone like Gary Speed might've done the job for this season. Johnson and Nafti for all their effort are just not strong enough. The centre of defence, oh my, it's painful watching Ridgewell at times, one moment superbly taking down the ball and playing it confidently out of defence the next gifting the opposotion a golden chance, he's our own Titus Bramble. If only we'd been able to keep Djourou, Arsenal never used him anyway...I think he needed a battle hardened defender with him someone like...hmm there arent too many about are there? where are the old Michael Boulds, Craig Shorts, Colin Coopers, guys who you could get a good season or two out of before they're past it?
Fingers crossed for Sunday but I like the look of McLeish anyway, if we can keep him and some of our top players we should be able to bounce back stronger next time if we go down and be stronger next year if we stay up.
C'mon Derby and Portsmouth!
Some cracking points yet I still think two points from eleven away games is a very very poor return. McLeish has stuck with the same defence and tactics when everyone is fit despite this and there has been a lack of competition as a result. You can't tell me the shocking away performances since Christmas are down to anyone but the manager. However weak we may look bar one away game at least we battled under Brucie. The same players making the same errors is food and drink to the opposition and we have become too predictable and soft
I think anyone who goes 'home' and 'away' would find it imposssible to not notice the mumblings after our recent performances. I think Bluenoses are starting to question one or two of McLeish's decisions in the same way that others questioned Bruce's. I don't think McLeish really appeased the fans over the Villa defeat either. Many felt he brushed it aside and didn't show enough empathy with the fans over such a humiliation. So that hasn't done him any favours.
I've got to admit I'm also starting to have a few concerns with certain aspects of Mr McLeish's reign. I don't think we'd have many more points if Bruce was still in place but I am pretty sure we WOULD have ground something out of the 6-pointer games. We've performed miserably in those must-win matches and gifted valuable points to our key rivals. It wouldn't have been pretty under Bruce but it would have been points in the bank. Bruce always had a knack of grinding out something in those sorts of games. Bruce was not always very entertaining but effective non the less.
I myself liked the idea of a change but the timing was terrible, we should not have let him leave for another 6-12 months. This would have allowed us to make a smooth managerial transistion instead of the usual Blues crisis!! Anyhow, Bruce has long gone and we're going for a different approach now, so lets hope McLeish is able to successfully find a balance between entertainment value and league points next season. Although that's a little like the Holy Grail!!!!!
I think that on the whole the fans really need to keep faith with the manager at the moment and let him make these decisions himself. He's the man paid to do the job and should be given a fair chance. I used to get annoyed at how often armchair managers would disect Bruces tactics or substitutions. Ok, fair enough occasionally but it got to the point where every word or action was being analysed. I would not want to see that done to McLeish. Big Eck did however have the opportunity to stamp his own mark on the squad in January but sadly he partly failed (perhaps by no fault of his own) so in the summer I'm expecting big changes. We can then judge him fairly. Most new managers like to work with their 'own' players, so come August 2008 there should be no excuses.
If McLeish has a good start to the new campaign the fans will stay 100% with him BUT if we have a poor start then I think he might see what Bruce had to put up with. Blues fans stay extremely loyal but when they 'turn' on someone it's usually very hard to get them back on your side. Bruce lost many people's faith after the 7-0 drubbing and even we'd won the Cup the following year lots would still never forgive him. I fear that the Villa humiliation may have cost Alex some friends already. It's going to be a really hard season for McLeish next year, I felt Bruce coped amazingly well with the pressure at times. I'm really hoping McLeish will do the same because it's not always going to be rosey... especially if we end up in the Championship.
We shouldn't forget that Bruce and McLeish are two completely different chapters in Blues history. He's gone now and we've got to move on (take note Mr Sullivan and Mr Gold). One day I think even the harshest of Bruce critics will give the bloke some credit for what he achieved considering the constraints placed upon him. McLeish has now got the opportunity to improve upon Bruce's achievements... it'll be a tough ask but if he can do that then we truely have found ourselves a great manager!! Fingers crossed!!! KRO
Brucie - great player in his day, fair manager, but tactically weak, like Keegan, watch Wigan and Newcastle struggle again next season. Can't fault Brucie for the job he did at Blues, he got us in the Premiership twice but lacked the funds and the know how to keep us there.
Big Eck - good player, good manager, good supporting staff. He will only get better with time so I can only hope the board will back him to the hilt. Tactically more aware than Brucie so I believe he will make wiser decisions in the transfer market and if in the Premiership build a team to stay there.
I too thank Brucie for his efforts. He did a good job for us, but it was time for a change. I think that Alex is a damn fine manager. The main problem as I see it was that we were let down by the Board in January. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and unfortunately that's what we got. No Central defenders bought in january. The ones we have, Jaidi, Taylor hardly covered themselves in glory last season in the championship, so how do we expect them to do any better against some of the World's best strikers. Ridgewell is only mediocre at best. Defensively we are just awful. You can blame McLeish for defensive tactics, but not for errors being made time and again by the same players. He has nobody else to pick though due to lack of quality cover in that department. Stick with McLeish though and we will be better for it in the long run.
Beatles, Oasis, Coe, Nadal, Thompson.
Is it time to remember that for seasons the promises that have gone before and i am not saying players are paid to much and agents are getting to involved with players.
But i think that there are certain players at Birmingham already decided they are out of the door next season and this is why the performances are poor.
If you are Blues fans take yourselves back to the days of the play offs against Barnsley and watford some players Knowing if they made the Premiership they would not be there next season ie O'conner and Paul Furlong to mension.
Being a Blues fan has it's ups and downs and at this time of the season i would say a lot of supporters are as down as me if you breed quality throughout your First team and Reserves you should reap rewards sooner than later as the club across the road.
It's nonsense to judge any manager after less than a seaon in charge of a club - they need time to bring in players, organise things behind the scenes and get the team playing their way.
However, it's easy to judge a board that has been in charge for so long, has consistently over-charged fans, has made big promises that haven't been kept and has failed to spend any real money.
Whatever happens on Sunday, the board must realise we're sick of being taken for mugs.
The problem with Birmingham City is not the manager and his staff, the problem with Birmingham City is the lack of investment from the board. The board to their credit have done a great job from when they took over in 1996 but we need to move on now and I don't think from what I've seen over the last 3 seasons what you read in the papers and Sullivans tone on 'Inside Sport'.... that they are prepared nor interested in the club to the point where they want to invest proper money that would give us a chance in the Premiership.
Mcleish is a great manager and we are lucky to have him, his record is undeniable, what he did with Glasgow Rangers and what he did with the Scottish national squad. I really think he and his staff could do a great job at blues but he needs to given a reasonable amount of time and resources. At least half half the squad players at Birmingham are just not good enough to play in the premiership and the board won't folk out for premiership players that's why we're in the position we're in.
Mcleish has tried to get the team playing football and I'd say he's done that, a definate improvement. Unfortunately We don't have a forward who can score 20+ goals a season and a leaky defence and basic defending errors may have cost us our Premier league status. Ridgewell especially has cost us a number of goals and games, Jahidi is past it and slow, Mcsheffery, Johnson are not good enough to play in the Premiership. There is too much pressure on Fabrice Muamba to run the midfield every game, we need some quality and experienced players in there. Although Maik Taylor is a good shot stopper he looks pretty indecisive when the crosses come in and he doesn't command his six yard box, so we could probably have a look at another keeper.
Birmingham have a small squad and that is what Mcleish has to work with what can he do... not to mention if we have injuries etc. If we go down the board have either got to invest or sell, give Mcleish and Birmingham City football Club and supporters a chance and judge the manager and his staff on his team not one he inherited from Steve Bruce. Steve Bruce went through the same with this board trying to buy players on a shoe string, on the other hand bruce has inherited a half decent team in Wigan who at the time were underachieving. Although Steve Bruce had done a great job for the club watching Birmingham play under Bruce had got boring and predictable, long ball upfront etc. if Bruce was still in charge I think we would already be down with Derby.
if we go down it's because our team isn't good enough and until that is addressed by the board, through sensible investment, we'll be a championship team for some time.