Southgate II - Blame Barry
GARETH Southgate was never forgiven.
As proud a Villa stalwart as you can get, one who led the team out in an FA Cup Final and played a club record 42 times for England whilst at Villa, branded a 'judas' and jeered and booed at every turn over the last eight years.
All for muttering the word "ambition".
Gareth Barry might find it a little tricky too...at least in the short term. I hope not.
Martin O'Neill lauded Stiliyan Petrov a fortnight ago for never wanting to run his contract down, not at Celtic and neither at Villa.
Surely the selfish thing for Gareth Barry to do would have been to stay for 12 more months and then to fly off?
Went for the money? Don't make me laugh.
Villa offered Gareth as much as City...well, almost.
£80,000 a week and a testimonial was there for the taking had he stayed on.
Liverpool came in after the deal was done. All that messing about last summer. Left Barry hanging out to dry they did.
Then 12 months on tell him he will be playing at left-back, then allow him to agree everything with City... and then come in with a bid.
"Too late Rafa. That boat has already sailed!"
Laughable really.
But this was never about Liverpool.
Or about money.
This is about first team football and ambition. Oops, there's that word again. Uttered by Southgate all those years ago.
Back in March 2001, I interviewed Southgate who had grown stale by his own admissions.
John Gregory had blocked a lucrative move to Chelsea and he harboured Champions League ambitions.
"Mid-way through last season I decided that in terms of my career it would be the right decision to move on. I felt that I'd done everything I could for Villa,'' Southgate said over eight years ago.
"I just felt I needed a new challenge, and I didn't really see Villa battling for a Champions' League place or, more importantly, for the championship itself.
"I still feel I'm in the same situation now. I don't think anything that's happened this year has convinced me that I was wrong about the way I felt previously."
Pretty similar sentiments to today's 700 word letter sent via email to me last night by Gareth Barry, a friend over the last ten years.
Barry wanted to use the Birmingham Mail as a direct communication tool. His idea, not mine.
I'd have been happy to do an interview but I think it spoke volumes for the man. It had to be his words and his thoughts alone. Not interspersed with my interpretation of his quotes. And not hacked back to the most eye-catching 300 words.
Yesterday Barry was fearful that his thoughts would seem too contrived, too hot off the press. But thankfully he changed his mind last night, clearly the relief of a year of speculation now off his back.
He knew he'd get bucket loads of abuse ala Southgate, Yorke, Ehiogu... until that is that Manchester City set about building a team of superstars to challenge the top four, three, or two as they almost inevitably will.
Maybe then the knockers will start seeing Barry's move as one of ambition and not one motivated purely out of greed.
Barry, as he says in the letter, is fearful of becoming stale. 12 years of driving into the same Bodymoor Heath entrance whilst all of his mates have moved on - from Darius Vassell to Lee Hendrie, has taken its toll.
That first team at Sheffield Wednesday in May '98 of: Oakes, Southgate, Ehiogu, Taylor, Draper, Yorke, Joachim, Wright, Nelson, Grayson, Hendrie - all long gone to a man.
Some sold by the club, some let go for nowt, others demanding moves on pain of death. Some long forgotten, others cherished, and Southgate still despised.
Fresh challenges. We all need them from time to time. Even football writers.
The loyalty argument always makes me laugh.
Barry, after all, was pinched from Brighton.
This was Barry almost sold for £5 million to Portsmouth three years ago.
And what of Martin Laursen? Five years at Villa. Played brilliantly for one and a half of them.
He will forever return as a conquering hero, greeted by all and sundry - and rightly so. Great bloke, really excellent player.
But how much blood did he spill for Villa? Barry sweated for eleven years as a professional. Laursen spent three and a half years on the treatment table and one of those spent back in Italy with his feet up on full pay.
If you want to find a villain in all of this, blame the game.
Blame the Bosman rule, blame the TV companies, blame the agents (Barry didn't even use one, so give him credit for that at least).
Blame the state of a national game where the fourth best club can pick up £25million a year more than the fifth best.
Blame the club directors filling their faces on foie gras, king crab or caviar in plush corporate seating, maybe washing it down with a Georgia's Paddock Shiraz from Heathcote.
All this whilst acquiring accumulated debts of £3 billion in the name of sport.
If you can't blame them then blame the banks of MPs expenses?
But don't blame Barry.
Back to Southgate. He, of course, ultimately won his ambition argument with Villa. He won a trophy, albeit a League Cup when he would have collected diddly squit if he had stayed on.
Southgate, interestingly, had this to say when he signed for Boro. Just substitute Steve McClaren for Mark Hughes and it's amazing the similarity: "Once I had spoken to their manager Steve McClaren it did not take me long to make up my mind to join.
"I was extremely impressed with the manager and what he wants to achieve at the club. There is never any guarantee of success but there is a new era starting at the club which I want to be part of.
"Although it's great to be able to look ahead to a fresh challenge, I want to stress that I will not forget the great times I had at Villa and I truly wish the club well for next season.'
Football and loyalty. That old debate.
I remember George Boateng's agent threatening strike action against Villa if he failed to secure a move to Middlesbrough.
As I have said before, fans will always boo a former player.
Cyrille Regis, now a father figure at Albion, got it big style when he went back with Coventry City. How the Baggies fans cheered when he was sent off for trading blows with Martyn Bennett.
Villa will move on. The Tom Huddlestone's and David Bentley's of this world will come in.
But the worry is that without Martin Laursen and Barry, and with the top four able to go big again, and with Manchester City and Tottenham spending monopoly money, the worry is that the only way for Villa is down.
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Mat Kendrick - is the Birmingham Mail's man at Villa.
Bill,
An excellent blog. I have nothing but respect for GB and wish him all the best. I will not forget the last 11 years and particularly the last 5 or 6 where he has been head and shoulders our best player. I am more angry at the club and the situation we have got ourselves in from January onwards. Yes, we were unlucky with Laursen, but now we have to replace 2 of our best players to stand still. I have little faith in M'ON's ability to sign quality replacements and see (as most fans do), nothing but mid table mediocrity with Ash been the next out of the door. This summer more than any other we need to invest and show that we mean business, not just empty promises and a manager full of excuses before the season begins.
Bill, Can you explain to me how winning 1 league cup in the six years he was at Middlesborough. Where middlesbrough finished above villa in half of the seasons but never finished higher than 7th whilst at villa not only did he win the afore mentioned league cup but also reached an FA cup final won 42 of his 57 england caps and while playing for Villa our league positions read 4 5 7 6 6 8 compared to the six years at borough which read 14 12 11 11 7 14 now he is managing them in the Championship.(I can not be bothered to track the carreerss of Ehiogio since he left mainly because I can not spell his name). This was not for ambition it was pure and simply GREED
Ian, You missed my point entirely. What would Southgate have won had he stayed at Villa beyond 2001? Nothing. Yes, he would have finished 8th instead of 12th in the first year. By the second season Villa were 16th and Boro 11th. The third season saw Villa 6th and Boro 11th. But the fourth season saw Boro 7th and Villa 10th. By the time Southgate was hanging up his boots in 2006 it was Boro in 14th and Villa back to 16th. So no great difference over the five seasons. Boro slightly up in three. Villa in two. But as a player believing he was heading for a more ambitious club he won a trophy, the League Cup, and played in a UEFA Cup Final. Now we all know Villa are a bigger club than Boro, far, far bigger both in terms of stature today and historically. Gareth Southgate knows that, and he knew it then. Which is also why he allowed his player of the season, Luke Young, to switch last summer without standing in his way like Martin O'Neill did when Liverpool came calling for Gareth Barry. As for City and Villa, in case you want to throw that one at me. Well, same again. Villa bigger in terms of fan base, history and recent showing in the top flight. But Barry has judged it over the next five years and believes he has more chance of winning something or playing in the Champions League. Judge him when City sign their next five players perhaps. Or, if they fall flat on their faces, judge it next May and laugh aloud.
What a shockingly bad article. Very poorly written.
Bill Oddie knows nothing.
Quality read with some previously unknown info on Barry's decision to release the letter chucked in as well.
There would presumably have been far more personal kudos for Bill in going for an 'exclusive' interview with Barry. Instead it comes straight from the horse's mouth so fans are left in no doubt as to Barry's feelings, whether they agree or not.
I'm sorry this is not a great article at all. I am not a regular reader of yours, but I would assume you support a team from the blue side of Brum? Fair enough too if that's your thing however your article appears totally anti-Aston Villa and anti-Villa fans more to the point.
You cannot understand why Southgate is despised and the furore concerning Barry? Well it comes down to loyalty - yes loyalty. It has nothing to do with how long you are at the club - that's not loyalty if you then throw it back in the fans' faces as Southgate did and Barry to a lesser extent. Both players were Villa captains, as such they have to behave better and set an example. Unfortunately they have set the example of how NOT to behave as Villa players.
It's not about the transfer fee it's behaviour - Juan Pablo Angel, Olof Mellberg and Martin Laursen all behaved impeccably and will forever be adored by Villa fans whether they were the friends of journalists or not. They all left or retired and the club gained virtually no transfer fees, but that does not matter - they were loyal to the club. Barry and Southgate were (very publicly) disloyal. That's the difference. It's sad in a way for Barry, but he's made his bed and he has to lie in it now.
Your point about Southgate winning the argument is laughable - ambition? Where did he end up with Boro? He stated he wanted the Champions League - not the third rate irrelevant competitions he ended up in. I argue if he had stayed with Villa, he would have actually finished in better league positions because Villa would have been a stronger team with him in it - that is what you forgot. In any case most Villa fans are glad he left now - we ended up with Mellberg - a better player and better human being. It is ironic to see where Southgate's ambition has taken him for next season.
Matt, please, please, please.....
You seem to be critical of any player that had the audacity to move away from Villa that the club wanted to keep? Preposterous.
Agree that Mellberg, Angel and Laursen behaved impeccably. Mellberg wasn't offered a new deal and went for £5.7m less than was paid, Laursen was forced to retire and Angel was allowed to leave for £9.5 million less. All would have stayed on at Villa given the chance. None were given that chance.
But loyalty is not about deciding to do the best thing for Villa.
Loyalty was scarcely in evidence in football in the decade before Bosman but disappeared totally afterwards.
Barry was pinched from Brighton. Where was his loyalty to them? He gave Villa 12 years. That's loyalty.
You only know of his options to go to Portsmouth and Liverpool. Believe me, he could have hopped it big time years ago, many times.
And Southgate? Don't you remember 2001? Villa fans calling for Doug's head because of his lack of ambition? Boro were spending way over what Doug was on fees and, yes, wages. Gareth went to try and break into the big time and it didn't happen. I accept that. But he still won something.
This loyalty thing is just rubbish, absolute rubbish.
When David Bentley signs, or Tom Huddlestone, or whoever... will you barrack them for their disloyalty to Tottenham?
Will you despise John Carew if Manchester City do come calling?
Why should Southgate and Barry, as captains, have to live by a set of different rules. I just don't get it.
Do you blame Kaka for his woeful treatment of AC Milan?
It's a horrible game at times. The fat cats are getting fatter. The smaller cats leaner. Villa are stuck inbetween. With an Academy boasting talent pinched from all over Europe and Australia but living every year in the knowledge that the really big cats are waiting to pounce for the Delfouneso's, or God forbid, Ashley Young's.
I'll end by saying I detest the ease with which players now move around. Abolish the Bosman swiftly and let's get wage caps in.
But until then don't throw the loyalty card at Barry.
Hi Bill,
I commented on your editor's blog about this transfer a couple of days ago when it was still "raw"! I did accuse Barry of being a money-grabber then but now, on reflection, well I've changed my tune somewhat!
Even if he did move purely for money - can anyone blame him? Perhaps I'm in the minority but if another employer offered me more money than my current one (to do the same work) then I'd probably take it. And all of us fans who criticise him for it would take it too. Yes, he was on good money at Villa but if he can get better elsewhere, well, can't blame him.
As for the loyalty card - well I think 12 years is a fine stint in this era of football. Plus I'd rather we got £12 million for him now than lose him for nothing next summer.
Personally, I agreed with MON for fighting to keep him last year - it almost worked out but ultimately we didn't get where we wanted to be. Nice try, better luck next time. Instead of being gloomy, perhaps this will give Villa a chance to rebuild with a few fresh faces. Now I've thought about it carefully, it's not the end of the world to lose Barry. I have faith in MON and hope others do too.
As for Bill being anti-Villa in this blog. Rubbish - in a word! I've accused him of being so in previous blogs but this gave us an insight into a great story. And I can't see Bill being delighted about Barry leaving because he has lost someone who appears to be a fine contact! Keep up these sort of blogs Bill - giving us an inside view of a big Villa story!
And for all the doom-mongers: keep believing!!
Many thanks Michael. That's jolly decent of you. Sure, I will miss Gareth but mainly for the reason that he was a fine player. As for the money, I think Villa did everything right this time. £12 million in early June when he has one year left. Tremendous stuff. Think then that City have to pay his wages throughout June and July without him kicking a ball. I make that about £750,000. But also think that Gareth was being offered always as much by Villa. They were desperate to keep him. Would have shattered the wage structure. And he could have had that £2 million testimonial. No, the reason he left, and the only reason, was because he sees City as title challengers over the next five seasons. As for why not Liverpool or Spurs? Simple, Liverpool were too busy messing around trying to scratch together the £12 million and came in after the City deal had been done. Messing him about again. And Tottenham? Never had a chance once City has agreed the fee. I think Harry Redknapp would have paid £8m or thereabouts. He did make a phonecall but that is as far as it got. What a laugh Harry moaning about wages and fees in his newspaper column today - the vast fortunes he lavished in January and during his two years at Pompey!!!!!
As you say Michael, the future is bright. Just keep believing.
Bill,
As a STH and regular away supporter, I think your views are fairly balanced and I am dismayed at times by the bile directed towards you. I am appalled at the silence from VP during and since the GB transfer. At a time when the fans need some assurance we get a big fat nothing (even though we get plenty of verbal you know what from MON throughout the season). You say the future is bright but why are you so confident about MON's ability in the transfer market? I am also very disapointed in the mail's reporting of the Ashley Young story - it smacks of sensationalism and an attempt to de-stabilise the club. In my opinion there is no truth in this story - where do your facts come from?
Firstly, I'm an outsider (so some of you may immediately disregard my subsequent comments)
I feel the comments questioning the original bloggers observations and his aligence, from my experience of reading the Evening Mail, is laughable. He's claret & blue, and this is the 1st time i've read his work and thought that the clubs owner hadn't written it.
Villa fans have a ridiculous dose of self importance. No one in the wider world cares that you're the biggest team in the Midlands. No one cares that you've got a rich history that only a medium can recall. Villa are a good top 6 club, but even in a self aclaimed fantastic season, they've finished as many points behind Manchester United as they did in front of Newcastle.
So, after setting the scene, Gareth Barry does not deserve the predictable bile & hatred that will undoubtably be aimed at him when he returns to Villa Park. He initially stated he wanted to join a Champions league side. He was denied that oportuinity last season. I agree with the blogger, left out to dry.
Today, after basically 'robbing' him from Brighton 12 years ago, Villa benefit by 12 million after fantastic service and at least 6 Player of the Season awards he decides to join a club with 250 million pounds available to make a very serious atempt on a top 4 place.
Am i being a little bit thick here? It appears to be a complete 'no brainer'.
Wake up boys, Gareth is guilty of changing his view from joining a top 4 side to joining a club with the very best chance of making the top 4 in the next 2 years. Much, much better chance than villa.
He has left after 11 years, he won't be able to show his kids/grandchildren ONE single medal. They won't be interested in the history book.
Like the blogger stated, only time will tell if he's made the right desicion. But nearly all the on lookers outside of Aston/Witton will today say he has.
Meanwhile, villa fans can congratulate themselves with winning the Birmingham Senior Cup. Villa fans will also look forward to boo-ing Gareth Barry next season too. They've got a great record for that, Yorke, Southgate etc.
In the meantime the big clubs will continue adding to their history and leave the villa reflecting on theirs.
Great points Nobbynomad.
Never let the truth get in the way of moaning and deluded,blinkered fans living in the past and not the present.
The views of Ian and Matt sum up all that is wrong with some supporters.Wake up to the real world laddies.This is not Fantasy Football
Nobbynomad - I think you need to get your facts right. For a start don't come on here slagging off Villa fans for booing Yorke. This is the guy who was pictured in a Man Utd shirt whilst still under contract to Villa. When he scored for Utd against Villa he ran in front of our supporters kissing his badge. Remember, these players are under contract and are happy to sign them for the money so don't give me all this players have given loyal service etc. BTW, which club do you support? Spurs and their treatment of Campbell? West Ham and Lampard? I could quote every club in the league! If Villa fans were not disapointed about losing their best player there would be something wrong. I suggest you crawl back under your stone and let proper fans comment on Bill's bog.
The Voice - I feel I have to comment on your point: "I am also very disapointed in the mail's reporting of the Ashley Young story - it smacks of sensationalism and an attempt to de-stabilise the club. In my opinion there is no truth in this story - where do your facts come from?"
Just to let you know - all I have written since the Chelsea story broke three weeks ago in one national paper, or the latest Spurs swap story broke today in the same paper - is two lines in Friday's Mail. And that was simply that fresh speculated was mounting about Young's future and that whatever the truth Martin O'Neill will fight tooth and nail to keep him. Whatever you may have read on the internet, was certainly not written by me or by anyone else on the Mail. What you might have seen is our internet staff serving notice of what was appearing in other publications. Hope that clarifies things?
Bill,
It was the mail article "Ashley Young linked with Chelsea, have your say" page. It starts off by saying that "MO'N is facing his second crisis in 72 hours" or words to that effect. I did not say it was down to you, but if that is not making a mountain out of a mole hill then I don't know what is. This is a story generated by the London press. Are the mail going to run a page like this on the 100+ players will be linked with over the summer? What is the point of the page except to stir up unrest when fans are fed up?
FAO of a sensitive voice.
Dwight Yorke served you fantastically. You made 10 million pounds profit, ten years ago!! He decided he wanted to play for a much bigger club. He won major honours, 3 Premier League winners medals, FA Cup & Champion League. You asked for facts, then fill your nose bag with those.
Players sign contracts, enjoy the money, so should stay loyal. What about the one's that tick all your boxes but are considered hopeless by the fans. Do we stay quiet and let them run down their contract? Of course we don't. We slag them off and demand the club gets rid as quick as possible.
So, double standards?
Third, crawl under my stone? No thanks, it's much more comfortable under your skin.
Nice goal today BTW Gareth.
Once again Nobby you let facts get in the way of your arguments. Clubs have to honour contracts no matter how badly players perform. I'm sure players like Bosko Balaban et al have very fond memories of picking up wages for nothing.
You wax lyrical about Yorke but do not address the point. Is it ok for a player under contract to have is photo taken in a national newspaper wearing another clubs shirt? If you read my original post I said I agreed with Bill's blog so why would I have a problem with GB scoring for England? One final question, which club do you support?
Aston Villa.
And Im sick to death of the ignorant idiots that sit near me. The ones that clap Crouch when he returns, despite the fact he contributed absolutely nothing on the pitch. The one's that spout bile at players that contributed massively on the pitch and generated cash for the club like Southgate, Yorke & Barry.
The ones that slaughter Gabby because he's going through a bad patch.
Surely we are supported by the stupidest supporters in the country?
I'm not interested in being the best side in the Midlands, there's no trophy for that. I want to support a team that adds to it's history and not hide behind it to ridicule clubs that have none. I don't care if we won the FA Cup 7 times when 6 of those occassions were pre Wembley 1923.
We have lost 2 massively influential players since the season ended, and it's looking ominous that our next most one is having his head turned.
We have probably peaked under MON, he lacks serious imagination and know-how in the transfer market. Our wealthy owner is a comparative pauper in comparision to some of the current heavy hitters.
Happy to finish 6th next season. Still 20-30 points behind the Champions.
One only has to read the last line of Bill Howells orginal article - the only way for Villa is down - I am glad he is following Villa and his articles will be widely read. Such warmth for Villa, it is almost palpable! There certainly is NO vindictiveness and NO schadenfreude for Villa here is there!!
Just to answer a couple of points: The Voice - you're dead right. What on earth was the idea behind that pointless poll? I have no idea. Stirs up a load of tosh. Unfortunately, you will have to take that up with the internet folk at our place. The same ones who led the "Should Barry be sold to Liverpool" poll after the defeat at Anfield. Nowt to do with the sports desk, I'm afraid. Villa won't sell Young. Not this season anyway. Second point, Lion, the fact that I worry that the gap between the top four, then Man City and Spurs, to Villa is getting bigger is no indication of my lack of affection for the club. It is merely a worry. I think we all know Villa have got some work to do this summer.
Sorry. The above was me. Technology sometimes baffles me.
Thanks for the reply Bill. I also agree with your last comment in the blog " the worry is the only way for Villa is down". At this very moment I think that is what most fans think unless we show intent during the summer.
I think it is important that when MO'N starts blaming us for our increased expectations that it is Lerner and particularly the General that state that the 1982 side is the benchmark. One final point, can you please ask MO'N to buy some players rather than denying that we are interested in them?
Bill, I agree with you regarding wage caps and the Bosman and I applaud your loyalty to Barry even if I do not agree with it.
Just a quick point about booing Villa players - I think that is totally wrong, it was wrong for anyone to boo Barry last year while he was in a Villa shirt too. The supporters' job is to support Villa players and boo the opposition (including overpriced Man City players).
I am not sure which of these statements which of these statements is now the truth: "the future is bright. Just keep believing." OR: "The worry is that the only way for Villa is down."
As for Nobbynomad - reading your original post it is totally obvious you are NOT a Villa fan.
Very good article Bill - not a word wasted.
I was at that game in May 1998 & quickly realised what a great talent GB was & has been since.
He joins the 3 other genuinely world-class players I've seen at Villa Park in my lifetime: Paul McGrath, David Platt & Dwight Yorke.
He will be sorely missed, difficult to replace & never booed (at least by me).
If you get a chance to speak to him on behalf of the vast majority of genuine supporters....please let him know this.